Sonia Paul 00:13
Hello, everyone, welcome to Loitering, the occasional, but lovable traveling mini pod I am currently testing in newsletter format. And today I am loitering in Fort Greene —
Avery Trufelman 00:24
Watch out!
Sonia Paul 00:25
Oh my gosh. I very nearly stepped on poop. And today, I am loitering in Fort Greene Park and walking around Fort Greene with a very special guest. Can you please introduce yourself?
Avery Trufelman 00:38
Sure. Hi, I'm Avery Trufelman. I make podcasts. And now I live in Brooklyn and I moved here during the pandemic. It's weird.
Sonia Paul 00:48
And where were you before, Avery?
Avery Trufelman 00:50
In the Bay Area, where you live, and so it's very weird to be walking with Sonia on the other side of the country now.
Sonia Paul 00:58
Or not so weird at all.
Avery Trufelman 01:00
Right. Like, no weirder than anything else that has happened this year. Like, who knows, right? Anything could happen.
Sonia Paul 01:05
Exactly. Okay, Avery. Um, tell us a little bit about your time since being back in New York. What has been the most memorable aspect for you in the last few months?
Avery Trufelman 01:20
It's weird, in this moment of extreme nothing, right. Like, I can't go to bars, and I can't really meet people, like, I can't do anything. I can't go to people's homes. It does feel like so much is happening. Like every week bring some sort of little fresh, tiny crisis. And oh, God, was it two weeks ago? I waited in line. It's funny, now that I live in New York have to go back to saying "on line," like, New Yorkers say, like, I waited on line. And I used to say that when I moved to California, and everyone was like, what does that mean? Like, the internet? But now that I'm back, I have to untrain my — like, get back to my New Yorker-ism of waiting on line. So I was waiting on line for a test. And the line was so long —
Sonia Paul
Wait, a test for what?
Avery Trufelman
A COVID test, a COVID test, which like, we all have to do all the time now. And it takes forever, and it's freezing. It's like, totally hellish. And um, I did a rapid test. And that day, they called me. And they're like, you've, you tested positive. I was like, oh, oh, I had no symptoms at all. I was shocked. And um.
Sonia Paul 02:00
Why, what prompted you to get a test in the first place?
Avery Trufelman 02:25
Oh, because it was like, Thanksgiving, and I was about to go home. So it was 10 days before Thanksgiving. And I was like, you know, it's the thing to do, like take a test and then quarantine. I was like, make sure I'm negative and then quarantine. And I was not expecting the test to come back positive. It was super — it was super weird. And um, it was kind of fascinating because I watched the mechanisms of New York State sort of snap into gear. The contact tracers called me, they called me every day. I got sent this pack of like, masks and hand sanitizer. And I mean, the amenities here are kind of amazing. They'll put you up in a hotel if you need it. They asked me to list every business I had interacted with, every person I'd interacted with. I had to go and call everyone and be like, "Hey, I just want to let you know that I tested positive for COVID." And it was a total nightmare. It was like, oh, this is what it must have felt like during the AIDS crisis, to call everyone up and be like, "Hey, I have this thing." And a lot of people were really understanding. Some people were furious.
Sonia Paul 03:29
Can I ask, like, this rapid test. I mean, given that you had no known exposures, no known symptoms… Like, how confident, how certain were you about these results? Like, were you in disbelief at all?
Avery Trufelman 03:44
Oh, well I mean, it seems likely, like, there are a lot of asymptomatic carriers. And also like, I'm not a scientist. I don't know. I feel like there's so much of a doctrine of healthy skepticism now. Like, Leticia Wright just posted that tweet about like, "Maybe we shouldn't trust the vaccines." And like, I don't want to be anti-medicine. Like, it would just be the perfect American asshole thing to do, to test positive and be like, "Nah, I don't believe it." Like, of course, I, I quarantined, I didn't do anything. And my friends were so sweet. Like, my friend sent me groceries, my friend sent me flowers, which like, honestly, I really needed. It was very weird to be like, ah, I want a snack, and like, not be able to go to the store and get it. So, I waited a few days, and then I took more COVID tests, I took three more. I took like, a rapid and a PCR and a saliva test. And I was really stressed out, and those all came back negative.
Sonia Paul 04:38
Interesting, because, you know, isn't it the case too that the rapid tests aren't that accurate anyway? I mean, like —
Avery Trufelman 04:45
Which I'm learning. Yeah, apparently, they're like, not even legal in Denmark. They're terrible science.
Sonia Paul 04:50
So why do you think we have something called rapid tests?
Avery Trufelman 04:54
Cuz we're busy, we need our test results now! And that was me, I was like, "I need these results today. Like, I'm so busy." Doing what? There's literally nowhere to go. I don't know why. So I feel like that's part of like a shift in the cultural ethos, is we need to be like, just wait three days for a PCR test. Yeah, so it was crazy. It was like, oh, it was a false positive. I still quarantined anyway, for the full time, just to be certain. As much as anyone can be certain about anything. But yeah, like, I think it's important to be skeptical of the rapid tests, but you know, it's like a fine line to walk, right? I think all the time about that brilliant New Yorker comic, where it shows a guy in an airplane. And he's like, "Who's sick of these elitist pilots flying the plane? Who thinks I should fly the plane?" It's like, that's America. Like, I don't want to be like, "Listen, as a human, I don't trust doctors." Like, of course I trust science, and I trust experts and the people who are risking their lives for us every day. So I don't know, I don't know what to make of it. I can't say it's like, fundamentally shifted the way I believe. I think I'm just like, that's a crazy — that was a crazy fluke. And it's really hard to know that my scenario was a best-case scenario? Like, I wasn't even sick. And it still sucked. It still sucks just to like, culturally, go around and tell everyone that I tested positive. And have some people be mad at me and like, nurse the uncertainty and quarantine. Like, all of that already sucked. I cannot imagine actually being sick on top of it. And, you know, my family got in a huge argument about whether or not I should come home for Thanksgiving. And just to realize how the policy and the science of this moment is actually just affecting our personal lives. And I'm sure similar problems are ricocheting throughout the country and throughout the world right now on all these divides. So, I mean, I hope, pray, inshallah, that, you know, I don't test positive again. But in a weird way, I'm kind of grateful for the experience, to have almost like, roleplayed, what it would have been like to test positive and to know the resources that are there. But man, that was a — that was a trip.
Sonia Paul 07:08
Yeah, I mean, like... so you went through all the steps. You pretended — I mean, you did, theoretically, according to this rapid test, have COVID. But...I know you mentioned that it hasn't fundamentally altered the way you think. But, do you think this year, with all the uncertainty it has wrought... Has it made you question what it means to be certain about the future? Or certain about whatever present circumstances you thought you could count on?
Avery Trufelman 07:44
That's a good question. You know, honestly, I think I've always prided myself as the kind of person who like, says yes to everything. If someone's like, want to go to this weird event, I'm like, "Yeah, totally." Like, even if it's not really my jam. Like, I'm a person who says yes to things. And honestly, like, you're right. The false-positive did change me in some ways because I was dating someone before. And I was kind of on the fence about it. Like, I don't know about this person. But whatever, like, winter is coming. I need a winter cuff. And uh...I mean, like, she's great, also. But I was like, I don't know if this is like the right thing to do right now. And I was like, trying to push my luck. I was like, trying to go to museums, I was trying to do a pottery class. And after that false positive, I was like, nah, like, none of this is worth it, for that scare. And so it helped me realize that, like, I do want a degree of certainty. But unfortunately, the only way I can do that is close myself — because now that I live in New York, my family is here. I live entirely too close to them. Like, now, you know, there's like a cold breeze coming on our necks right now. And I can feel winter approaching. It’s like, tunnel vision, time to settle down. Like, I'm just going to live in my apartment and do my job and see my family sometimes. And I think I can only do this because I hope — no, pray — that this is temporary, and it won't be forever. But, it's going to be like, a very unadventurous year. And that's a form of certainty. It's like, I guess, yeah, it — being boring.
Sonia Paul 09:12
And like, it sounds like what you're saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that having gone through the experience of so much uncertainty has made you want to rely on the only things you can be certain of right now, because it's too much to try to incorporate the less than certain aspects.
Avery Trufelman 09:31
I mean, I think yes, but I don't know if it has to do with like, a fundamental desire for like, uncertainty or certainty in my soul. I think if I still lived on the other side of the country, I would be willing to, like, take more risks and, you know, like, indulge in the occasional lapse of judgment that I used to shamefully indulge in. But I think now that I'm like, with my family out here, and I had that scare, I'm just like, it's not worth it. Like, nothing. Nothing is worth that feeling of like, horror and guilt and shame and — people were very sweet, and they're like, you shouldn't have any shame. It's a deadly virus that's going around. But it's like, I don't know, man. Like, it's time to like, it's time to cut back. So, I used to pot up with some college friends of mine, and we like cut that pot, like, and just like, shutting my whole life down. Which is what I should have done in the first place. So it's uh, that's all right... I like uncertainty. I don't think I'm trying to run away from the fundamental idea of uncertainty. And it's not like uncertainty has gone away, like you could still fucking get — like, there could be something in my building with COVID. But, I think it has more to do with like, selfishness and selflessness. And I think I have to just be like, not prioritize my own, trying to find my own exciting adventures right now, and just like, be a little more boring for my parents. But speaking of, I gotta go to this meeting. I'm so sorry. It's so good to see you. Thank you so much for doing this.
Sonia Paul 11:00
So, any final thoughts?
Avery Trufelman 11:02
When you were like, what's going on? How's your life? Like, literally, Sonia, like, I don't do anything. I just like, rollover out of bed, I do my job, I work, and then I cook some food, and then I roll back in bed and go to sleep at night. Like, and that's just how it's gonna be all winter long. And that's okay.
Sonia Paul 11:17
Okay, so that's all we have for today of Loitering, the occasional but lovable, traveling mini pod I am currently testing in newsletter format. Thank you for listening and have a great day. Goodbye!
Some links:
I wasn’t sure what to expect when I started reading this, but it is very good.
Male friendships during the pandemic: Agree or disagree?
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